VARIETY EMMY DRAMA SHOWRUNNER PANEL: Panelists: Damon Lindelof & Carlton Cuse (LOST), Vince Gilligan (BREAKING BAD), Robert King (THE GOOD WIFE), Gregg Fienberg (TRUE BLOOD non-writing EP), Clyde Phillips (DEXTER)

Phillips: I was on Martha’s Vineyard in winter – someone was talking about DEXTER and my wife said, “That’s my husband’s show” and the person replied, “No – it’s MY show.”

Gilligan: I only hear stuff anecdotally. I’m not on the internet.

King: I think everyone writes for their mother.

Fienberg: I listen to what people say. But then, no one’s really talking about TRUE BLOOD…

Q: Do you have a supernatural bible for TRUE BLOOD?

Fienberg:  We didn’t when we started but after three seasons, we have a writers assistant doing that now because some blogs caught us on some stuff.

Q: It’s the last season of LOST, there’s been so much attention and publicity.

Lindelof: It’s so intense.  We knew for three years we were ending and we spread it out.  ComiCon is the kickoff of every season and we tapdance and don’t answer questions.  When that panel was over this time, it was the last ComiCon panel.  Everything became “the last” thing.  No pressure was more intense than the pressure we put on ourselves.  We stuck to our plan.

Cuse: It was only supposed to be 12 episodes.  We violated the rules of TV: we had lots of characters, lots of stories, so we asked “what’s the final season WE want to see?”  We knew some people would like it and some won’t.

Q: THE GOOD WIFE is an example of a character-based drama, a change from what worked for CBS.

King:  We were willing to do whatever they wanted.  We’re more whores than artists.  We pitched the character side and they said, “do more of her personal life.”  We found ways to engage with this woman’s life.

Q: To Cuse & Lindelof: You set a precedent asking ABC for an end point for LOST.  How do the rest of you feel about asking for an end point for your shows?

Gilligan:  I thought that was a brilliant move, especially for a serialized show.  I’d love to see it become a new paradigm.  It’s better to leave people wanting more.

Fienberg: I think it’s brilliant. I did DEADWOOD – every day people tell me they want more.  Alan [Ball] did it with SIX FEET UNDER.  It should happen in TV.

King: David Mamet said,, “If a feature is a marathon, TV is running til you’re dead.”   We wouldn’t set an end date – we’d write toward an end.

Lindelof: The cool thing about ending it is that we could still be the creative stewards of it.  Part of me is very nervous to watch DEXTER this season without Clyde there.  We wanted to end LOST on our own terms.  Ending your show enables you to do something for years and then go on to another thing (paraphrasing here).

Q to Phillips: Was it a tough decision to move on from DEXTER?

Phillips: It was an extremely difficult decision to leave – it’s the best job in the world.  To walk away from that (pause) – I just realized half this panel is unemployed – it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

Cuse: I wondered why you didn’t return my call.

Phillips: It was hard because I’ve been doing this for a long time. the satisfaction that comes from the hard work, sitting alone and writing and knowing it’s good.  That’s very hard to walk away from.

Q: The job has gone from showrunning to brand managing.  Could you talk about that?

Cuse: We hear the word “transmedia” a lot.  Shows are broader than shows.  There were ancillary products we wanted to explore, mobisodes, video games, but it was time away from the mothership.  You have to be artful to figure out how to best spend your time.  The networks pressure you to expand your brand.

Lindelof: A lot of it is killing stuff.  We had people read stuff and tell us it wasn’t good for the brand – even outdoor advertising.  You have to be involved.

Cuse: They consulted us because they wanted our support.  We’re all so personally invested in our shows.

Fienberg: Younger people expect five other avenues for the show.  You have to feed the beast. It’s important to embrace it.

Lindelof: Have you seen those MAD MEN commercial ripoffs?  Matt [Weiner] would have a heart attack over it.  I imagine AMC came to him and said, “you have to take one for the team.”  They hired Jack Bender to do LOST-esque Target commercials and we told them the Target logo had to be on the screen so viewers would know it’s not the show.

Q: For the cable showrunners: with all the dark characters, do you ever get pushback that you’re going TOO dark?

Fienberg: Sex and violence is our show.  This year, the twisting of the neck came up but I think it was earned.

Phillips: It’s a very fine balance.  Are we being true to the character? We questioned ourselves.  We were urged to go harder and deeper.

Gilligan: I have no horror stories about our network [FX].  The episode when Walt, through gross inaction, let his partner’s girlfriend die choking on her own vomit, it was only Season 2.  We talked it through on the phone and they said “go ahead, go with god.”

Phillips: If you’re at a network where you can have a conversation, mine have been respectful with the network, then it’s good.

Q: Can you talk about the writers room for your shows and perspective?

Lindelof: It starts as a 12 ANGRY MEN scenario – reach a unanimous consensus and two hours later, it’s a dictatorship.  In our room, different people wore the Devil’s Advocate hat.  If the same person always wears the hat, you fire them because they come a toxic presence.  For “The Constant” episode, it was a five week break because of creating rules of time travel.

Q: International licensing and DVD profits – are these present in your mind when you’re creating and writing a show?

Fienberg: It’s in my mind.  It frees Alan to write.

King: CBS keeps an eye on that.  I’m naive on that.  The more specific we are in the writing, the it generalizes the issues.

Gilligan: I don’t think you can put the cart before the horse.  You have to tell the story and let the chips fall where they may.

Phillips: We have a huge international following.  We didn’t think in those terms.

Fienberg: Looking at the talent here, i can’t imagine any of you have time to think about this.

Q: Does it help when you get early season pickups?

Lindelof: We were sneaky in season 3 – we demanded an end in season 6 which guaranteed us three more seasons.

Phillips: DEXTER was picked up during the run for two more seasons and it helped us enormously for writing.

Cuse: Having an end date was critical to the success of the show.  We had characters locked in cages, which was metaphorically how we felt. The end date gave us courage to plan the end.  It also gave viewers a sense of confidence to invest in the show.

Phillips: I agree with Carlton about the audience being willing to invest in a show when it’s picked up quickly.

Lindelof: But then other people on other shows that aren’t picked up say, “Hey, what about us?”

The program ended there.  Sincere thanks to Stu Levine, Mike Schneider and Cynthia Littleton of Variety and the Paley Center for Media for a wonderful panel.

MAD MEN: “Waldorf Stories” – for me, this was an episode of parallel drunken stupor stories: Don’s and Roger’s.  Don picked up two different women in the course of a weekend, a flashback showed us Roger hired Don when he was drunk – the best part of Roger’s flashback was it being preceded by Roger telling Joan, “My job is to hire guys like him [pointing to Don].”

–Don – he had a true lost weekend, starting with the Clio luncheon and the gal who picked him up at the bar when they were celebrating their win and then the diner waitress who called him Dick and we’re not sure when he picked her up (and neither is he).  What a moment when Betty phoned Don, furious because he was M.I.A. to pick up the kids and Don said, “I’ll be there Sunday” and she barked, “It IS Sunday.”  Was this Don hitting rock bottom?  Or can it actually get worse?  We saw that even his colleagues at work are noticing his behavior – I point to the Life cereal pitch meeting that went awfully awry – but could Don Draper actually lose his key position at SCDP?  Or, will there be something that shocks him back to reality and get him to crawl out of the bottom of a bottle?

–Pete – showing a new maturity with the re-entrance of Ken Cosgrove and Pete putting his foot down firmly as to his dominance over Ken if and when Ken joins SCDP. It was like watching a dog pee on a hydrant.

–Roger – we saw quite a bit of his melancholy side, or as Joan said, his morose side.  Loved the flashback showing us how Don got his job at Sterling-Cooper after meeting Roger at the fur salon he worked at when Roger bought a fur for his then-mistress Joan, then Don asking/chasing Roger down for the job at S-C.  Roger likes the money Don makes for him but he’s a constant reminder to Roger that his (Roger’s) best days are behind him.

–Joan – I love how Joan’s role has become more of an integral operations role and it’s great to see her included in meetings and in places like the Clio ceremony.  She’s also allowed to say what’s on her mind and none of the men shush her.  She’s earned their respect and it’s really interesting to watch vis a vis Peggy still struggling to get some respect – especially from Don.

–And speaking of Peggy: the scene in the hotel room with her and Stan, the obstinate art director “getting liberated” revealed even more that Peggy is evolving with the times and not at all the mousy girl we met at the start of the series.  I especially like how she’s willing to test other people’s boundaries without flinching.  Her backbone is considerable and she’s got a lotta nerve.  I just love her as a person.

–The Clios: huge points for the brief reappearance of Duck Phillips, very drunk, loud and disruptive, and then getting thrown out of the proceedings, followed by Don’s great line, “I feel like I’ve already won.”

Is the show going too dark for you?  Is the pressure of being a rainmaker for the new company getting to Don?  Can he handle it or will he crack? These are the things I’m thinking about. What do you think?

TODAY’S SURF WRITTEN WHILE LISTENING TO: Ben Folds and Nick Hornby – “From Above”  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQ-qdUmi1M

Tonight’s rundown:

ABC: CMA Music Festival: Country’s Night to Rock: Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley, and Taylor Swift are featured.